Regarding Andrew Strom – RevivalSchool.com

A “cult expert” certifies that FOTM and Doug Perry ARE NOT a cult in any way, shape or form – and rebukes Andrew Strom.

On July 12, 2008, Andrew Strom published an open rebuke and warning on his discussion forum at RevivalSchool.com about Fellowship Of The Martyrs and Doug Perry.  He made quite a number of assertions and accusations.  Doug (and others) responded back, but Andrew closed the thread and deleted the final post from Doug.  For a long time, Andrew has withheld from making his feelings about Doug and FOTM public.  Likewise, for a long time, Doug has tried to reason with him and not made it public.  Andrew forced this issue and the Lord says that it’s time for all the shepherds (good and bad) to have their skirts lifted so everyone can see.  Below are a long list of emails back and forth between Doug and Andrew dating back to November 10, 2004.  Other information is posted here as well so that you can see.

Pray that the Lord God Almighty would give you discernment and help you to see His TRUTH and nothing but.  Test and see if the public image and the private behavior match up.  Be sure that you are not following Man – not Andrew and not Doug.  Seek Jesus only!  Pray real hard about if you’re even supposed to waste time with this can of worms or if you’re supposed to go spread the Gospel or feed the hungry or heal somebody.

Our goal here is not to call Andrew a “cult leader” or scrub him out of the Body or hurt the Sheep. The goal is simply for people to see that the accusations made are not based on anything other than Andrew’s personal pride problem and a lack of discernment and ability to hear the voice of God. We pray that if he will not hear after trying again and again to reach him, then maybe the Body will show him the need for repentance and humility. That he might be a useful vessel fit for real revival.

—– Original Message —–
From: Maribeth & Brian Curry
To: Andrew Strom
Cc: Doug Perry
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:37 PM
Subject: In conclusion

Dear Andrew.
Because of your allegations that fotm is a cult I have spent many, many days investigating it very, very thoroughly.

Instead of responding to my honest questions, you hid behind the fact that I’d not actually physically been to Liberty.

Since I am physically unable to actually go there though I would like to, I talked to, corresponded with or listened very carefully to 8 people involved in this situation asking all the necessary questions to discern if your accusations were in fact true..

I carefully weighed everything I heard, saw and read, asking Yeshua the entire time what His truth was about each piece of the puzzle. I repeatedly went back to Doug and made him explain his response to the allegations. His were completely transparent and consistent with the person and character he portrays on the internet. The others continued their rants and poorly substantiated ideas which were full of twisted reasonings and emotional, angry, and bitter tirades.

Someone has set these people up and convinced them that fotm is a cult, taking advantage of their pain and confusion and is trying to get them to twist enough of their memories to make them think they were in a cult. They were not.

The thing is Doug answered all my questions openly and compliantly, yet not once have you respected my questions to you and given objective concrete answers for your assertions. Not when I came to you about TACF, and not now.

As a professional deprogrammer who participated in over 100 cases where we got the person completely free of their pseudo-Christian cult, the exact kind of thing you are alleging fotm is,  I am here to tell you that you are WRONG!!!

We were supported by our church family and had pastoral oversight every step of the way and as a result, though we got cult members out of their cults in 19 countries on 4 continents, we had no legal problems. We were the only deprogrammers we knew who didn’t either face huge court battles or spend time in jail for their work. We did it scripturally; God blessed and protected us, even from threats against our life. So I think my professional opinion carries some weight in this discussion.

What you’ve done is take a conclusion and tried to twist the facts to make it so.

Instead of making the angry, bitter, often irrational and hurt people get their garbage cleaned up BEFORE their accusations were accepted as fact, you have used their pain and confusion to build a case against an anointed ministry.

Then you used that conclusion to blacken the name of what the Lord is doing, to your audience worldwide. When called into account, you locked down the forum, shutting out what you didn’t want to hear. That’s more control than I’ve found in Doug.

Instead, the honest and respectful thing to do is ask the question, “Is FOTM a cult?”

The activities and attitudes of Doug simply do not fit the definition of cult.

If you truly want to stick by this, then you need to do some work which you obviously haven’t done because you’ve not been able to give me one objective example of cult activity other than that you’ve talked to him a few times, rebuking him mostly, without ever finding out what he actually meant and what he felt God was saying. Instead you disparage the few things you let him say and oh yes,  you’ve listened to some angry wounded people and weighted their ideas far above Doug’s. What you didn’t do was investigate far enough to see who actually did the wounding.

It wasn’t Doug.

Read William Sargent’s Battle for the Mind. He very clearly lays out in point form, the classical definition of cult. Read the Divine Principle by Sun Myung Moon or anything by former polygamous wives of Mormons such as Escape by Carolyn Jessup or anything by Mary Baker Eddy Smith. The mind-control is obvious.

Then take the classical definition, having seen how it applies to the 3 cults listed and try and find anything in Doug and fotm that fits that model. Sorry, it’s just NOT THERE.

And before you try to throw any more smoke in my face, we had many people who came to us to get their kids back out of things like The Church on the Rock and the Pentecostal Church… so we had to go to Yeshua and ask for the wisdom to discern each time, what was and what wasn’t a cult.  This is my specialty and I’m here to tell you, you are completely wrong.

It’s as though you were out walking at night and heard a  baby crying but couldn’t find it. So you call the police and they come with big lights and they can’t find it either though they can hear it too The only thing they find is a cat, in heat, still meowing and sounding just like a human baby.

Well, you can say, “It sounds like a baby, has 4 limbs, eyes, nose and mouth like a baby, it must be a baby!”

But no matter what you want to believe, when the LIGHT is shone on it, it’s obvious, it’s a cat.

That’s what you’ve done to Doug.

You’ve taken some peripheral activities without ever sitting down and in the love of Yeshua, asking him respectfully to explain the things you don’t understand. Instead, you’ve twisted them all around to support your conclusion without ever even thinking that your conclusion might actually be wrong.

But at the core, not one fotm activity or attitude lines up with the classical definition of cult.

Error in doctrine does not in itself define a cult. I am not calling his doctrine error at this point because I haven’t finished working through his thoughts and understandings of them from start to finish.

But even if he has error, whatever. Even you have error. Case in point: you’re 100% convinced that 100% of the Toronto Blessing was the enemy. It wasn’t. But you won’t even accept that someone who was there every night for 6 months and followed on for over 3 years might know just a bit more about what was and what wasn’t Holy Spirit’s ministry there than you who wasn’t.

So do I call you a cult and quit reading your stuff and post around the world that you’re in the enemy camp? NO of course not. You have an anointed ministry and I wouldn’t think of  blackening your name.

But you are quite cavalier to do that very thing to Doug and his anointed ministry.

I could go on but I will close with this.

There are thousands of people who will accept what you say, because you say it.

You have used that respect to damage the work of The Lord Jesus Christ and you will answer for it.

Scripture says. “Inasmuch as you have done this to one of the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me.”

You need to fall on your face and repent for coming against Jesus Christ the Carpenter of Nazareth who was crucified for our sins and rose that 3rd day to bring us to new life with Him.

The unforgivable sin is calling a work of Holy Spirit, a work of the enemy and you skate very close to that.

I truly pray that you don’t bring your house down around your head if you ignore this Ezek 33 warning from me.

You’ve been warned and your blood is upon your own head. And because I’m a prophetic voice that’s been in total seclusion for 6 years, so you can’t damage my name or reputation. There’s no one who would care.  That’s why God raised me up to get in your face about this. I truly pray that you will set aside your preconceptions and let Him reveal what’s going on in your heart.

The ball’s in your court.

I’m done. Am not going to put any more of my time or energy into this set of spurious allegations.

I’ve gone back to each person and told them my conclusions and that I am now through. You were the last to be addressed because you were the first, the one who started this witch hunt in your emails to me.

Sincerely,
Maribeth

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{ANDREW’S RESPONSE TO MARIBETH}

From: Andrew Strom  
To: Maribeth & Brian Curry
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008
Subject: In conclusion

Boy Oh Boy.

I keep telling you to GO THERE and LIVE THERE for awhile.

All the people you denigrate have seen and been around Doug for days and weeks – often months and years.

Please GO TO LIBERTY and live there for a couple of years!

Surely you can do that if you are going to be so insistent!!

I literally have nothing more to say.

Goodbye.

Andrew Strom.

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YOU DECIDE WHO IS ACTING MORE LIKE JESUS.

Copy of Original Discussion Board thread on Revival School

FROM REVIVALSCHOOL.COM FORUM

Author  Andrew – Site Founder
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 914

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:07 pm    
Post subject: WARNING about DOUG PERRY + FOTM – Andrew Strom

WARNING about DOUG PERRY + ‘FELLOWSHIP of the MARTYRS’
-by Andrew Strom.

It is with great sadness that I make the following statement:

Four years ago we asked Doug Perry to speak at our first “John the Baptist” Conference in Kansas City – to speak as a businessman about the sad state of financial doings in the church, etc – something he had done well in the past. Doug had been a believer for just a few years – and was only newly Spirit-filled. But I felt he would be fine if he stuck to his “specialist” topic. We gave him a Saturday afternoon slot.

Just before the Conference I grew slightly concerned that Doug might be “inflating” his role in the whole thing – and beginning to think the entire event was ‘about him’. -It was just the way he was praying about things. I asked him again to stick to his “businessman” subject and he agreed. But on the day he went directly against our agreement.

Doug spoke for 90 minutes and had to be stopped even then. He rambled on about subjects that we had specifically agreed that he was going to avoid. He seemed angry that I stopped him – even though he had spoken for twice the length he was supposed to.

It turned out that Doug was now listening to the “voice of God” telling him to do things – often things that seemed “off” or directly against common sense. He also seemed filled with pride. He would not listen to myself or David Servant (who also knew him well) or James Smith. We all approached him with strong warnings about Pride and “Listening to voices” etc – but to no avail. Doug began to develop a following on the Internet – and a small circle who gathered around him.

Every time I spoke to Doug I would warn him of pride – of his inflated sense of “self-importance” and listening to these voices, etc. I told him he would end up leading a “cult”. I said if he carried on, he would lose his business and even his wife and family. I could not have warned him more directly – and yet as a brother who truly cared.

Doug began to tell people that I had “unforgiveness” issues toward him. He would tell people all over the place that ‘Andrew has not forgiven me’ and so-on. Each time I spoke to him I would clearly tell him that I had no unforgiveness toward him whatsoever – that I loved him as a brother and I was telling him these things because I cared. -That he was on a destructive path that would result in great ruin – for himself and others. Still I discovered he was telling people how “unforgiving” Andrew Strom is – and how hypocritical for a man of God who actually preaches against unforgiveness, etc! The sad thing is, people seemed to believe him – even without asking me if it was true.

And so Doug’s Internet following grew. People began to shift near Kansas City to live with him. He grew a “guru-like” beard and used his genuine insights and teaching gifts to start putting out his material – wider and wider – with videos, etc. Doug can be a very persuasive and charismatic person – and says quite a few insightful and true things. But at the heart of it all is a deeply deceived man, and he has harmed many individuals.

I was always in two minds whether to make any public statement about all this. Sometimes it actually ATTRACTS more attention to people! So it can do more harm than good. But lately I have felt that the harm is getting so great that something must be said.

Of course, Doug did keep listening to his “voices” and he totally lost his business, went bankrupt, lost his wife and family – and I think even his home. None of this even slowed him down. He did not repent of anything. People continued to gather. The cult-like atmosphere grew.

Recently, a number of his closest ones have left the cult (in Liberty, Kansas City) – and have been very outspoken in exposing Doug’s cult-like practices. You can find their warnings on Youtube and the Internet.

But I felt it is high time that a leader who knows Doug personally comes out and says something to keep others from being harmed. Many of us have warned Doug privately. Now it is time to make these things known publicly so that others can be warned. It has gone beyond a “small circle”.

For those who have been attracted to FOTM (Fellowship of the Martyrs) or Doug Perry, I hope you are able to heed the warnings before you get drawn in too deeply. A lot of what he says can sound very appealing. It is what is behind the scenes that does a lot of the damage. Please be warned, my friends.

I write this only out of deep concern and sadness.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

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Luke – Site Veteran
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:26 pm    

a warnig well received and understood

luke

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Mohawk – Site Veteran
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:33 pm    

Hi Andrew

I can’t help but wonder if the impartation hasn’t been happening for many years and is just now becomming public knowledge. The baptism of the Holy Spirit gave me a great hunger for the word, a tremendous awe of God and a realization that His ways were far far above mans ways. It almost seemed by its nature to preclude pride and puffing up of self. Makes me wonder if they ever truely received. My experience has been that pride mostly comes with maturity and success in serving God setting a person up so to speak for a fall. But all these young men never seem to have received that reverential awe of God in the first place. There must have been som common threads in all of this. God open our eyes to see what they are.

God bless

Chuck

He spared not His own Son but delivered Him up for us.

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Luke – Site Veteran
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:37 pm  

…i think it’s called a famine…. not of food, but of the LIVING words of God

luke

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Mannamaribeth – Newbie
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:18 pm    
Post subject: re Doug Perry and fotm

Andrew

First of all, Doug became a believer when he was six with his missionary father in Mexico. He is not a novice in the Word. He received the baptism of the Holy Spirit through your ministry and expresses nothing but gratefulness for your ministry into him. Yes, he CAME BACK to the Lord after a period of not living for Him, a few years ago, but to say he is a believer of only a few years is just not true. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sRKpvNxksI

Secondly, you are still fussing about something that happened 4 years ago. And He did repent!

Doug has publicly repented of that whole issue at your John the Baptist conference and has admitted he did not do what God told him to do, not only in print but in video:

The following is taken verbatim from: http://www.fellowshipofthemartyrs.com/big_picture_bk/ripples.htm and can be watched at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeTjyzQOJjk

Doug says “For example, I might as well be transparent here and take this opportunity to apologize to you all. In the Spring of 2005 I was invited to speak at the “John the Baptist Conference” in Olathe, Kansas. I was all fired up and I was sort of the token business guy that could speak about waste and fraud and financial mismanagement in the church. It was in November of 2004 that I had a massive experience with the Lord and He showed me a vision of how desperately bad things are and I had been weeping and groaning and repenting ever since. About a month before the conference I was in my prayer closet and I asked the Lord to tell me what He wanted me to say at the conference. For about thirty minutes this weeping, moaning, repentant prayer comes out of me involuntarily. Just blasts through and I see a vision of me on stage on my knees crying out to God in front of this whole room of people. When it’s over I try to catch my breath and I say, “Oh, God! Nobody will be able to stand up under that! They will all be on their faces!” He says, “Yep. That’s what I want. Do that.”

Well, as the conference gets closer I forget about it. The brother putting on the conference talks me through some thing he wants to make sure I address because I’m really strong on those, but avoid this topics because there are others speaks on those and I’m not qualified there. I start thinking about the statistics of church mismanagement and all the information I’ve gathered and how it might be good to do a PowerPoint presentation or something. Even on the day of the conference a sister gives me a Bible verse that I never did look up – and as I’m walking up on to the stage a brother hugs me tearfully and asks me to do the right thing. I don’t have any prepared notes, I’m just going to try to get out of God’s way and let the Spirit lead.

Then they hand me a microphone and I think it might be good to tell everybody a little about me. So I say some good stuff, but I ramble around sort of aimlessly and talk about none of the things I was supposed to and some of the ones I wasn’t supposed to, I go way over time and cut into the next speakers schedule and throw off lunch. The organizer is giving me a cut-off sign but I just keep right on talking. Then it’s finally over, I say a little terse prayer and walk off.

A lot of people heard something in there that was helpful to them. God used it and will find a way to redeem us. But I did a lot of damage to the relationship with the brother in charge. Nonetheless, I felt like the weekend went really well. But on Monday afternoon, I get a phone call and the brother wants to talk to me about my prideful, immature display. I feel like it’s the better part of discretion to put him off for a day so that we can all calmly pray first before it goes somewhere that isn’t going to please God. That night I’m seeking the Lord and I honestly thought everything went alright. Then the Lord reminds me of that time in prayer and He says, “You asked me what I wanted you to say at the conference and that was the ONLY thing I ever told you to do. I didn’t send you there to talk about yourself and make your little speeches. There were plenty of others there that were going to do that. This was a repentance conference and I gathered about 500 of the biggest guns from all over the country and not ONCE did you all hit your knees and repent for anything. You were all so glad to see each other and come out of your caves that you never actually repented for anything. And that’s what I sent YOU there for – to do it in front of them and put ME in charge. And I stood in the back and waited, but nobody ever called. And if you had done what I told you to do there would have been a PILLAR OF FIRE over the Holiday Inn in Olathe, Kansas and the Kansas City revival would have started and spread all over the world. And the blood of EVERY person that didn’t get saved or healed or delivered because of that is on YOUR head – from then until the pillar of fire DOES show up.”

So then He gave me a glimpse of exactly how big that number of people might be and I cried and cried and wailed and moaned and wept a puddle under the desk in my office.

And when the brother called me the next day to say that everything I did at the conference was about pride, I agreed with him. And I didn’t fight back and I didn’t point fingers. The Lord said that He was led like a lamb to the slaughter and I was to take it and shut up. And there was nothing the brother could say that would make me feel any worse than what God had already said to me.”

~*~

In this piece Doug acknowledges his sin and pride and repents and not only that, he learns from his mistake and passes it along so others won’t make it too… If God can forgive and forget, why can’t you? How exactly is his the behaviour of a proud and stiff-necked man?

Since you Andrew are still going on about this, it appears by your own words, that you haven’t forgiven him. If you had you’d quit talking about it and quit trying to slander him with it which actually goes against your instructions for posting about not slandering people.

You say over and over how proud Doug is.

Obviously you’ve not paid much attention to his videos because it’s pretty difficult to be as transparent as he is on them and as full of pride as you make him out to be at the same time. Anyone who weeps for his own sins and for the pain he has caused Father God as well as the pain we the church cause Him, not only once but many times, publicly, in my books, doesn’t have all that great of a pride problem. Sorry.

If the fact that he doesn’t back down on what he has heard from the Lord is why you call him prideful, it’s not. In anyone else that would be considered a strength.

Thirdly, you call him a cult but in spite of my requests you still have not laid out any cult-like activities.

Feeding and caring for the poor are not cult defining activities. Neither are making teaching videos. Having a ministry house where people of like mindedness can come for ministry and teaching/learning, doesn’t define a cult. Even confronting people on issues of faith and doctrine are not cult activities.

So what makes him a cult?

Even were he to be as proud as you make him out to be, pride is not a mark of a cult. Control is. But Doug repeatedly says, “don’t do what I say but find out from God what you’re to do.” I’m sorry but that, my friend, is NOT the attitude of a cult leader.

In all our years of getting over 100 people out of cults, not one cult leader was anything like the Doug I have observed and communicated with thus far.’

Granted I’ve not gone to Liberty and met everyone and asked about all the dirt. But there’s dirt that comes against and even into every ministry at one time or another unless you’re not working for God. If you’re in leadership, you just deal with it and get on with the job.

Having lived in a Jesus People style commune, which FOTM ministry house resembles very much, the culture is familiar and the issues that have been arising according to the videos that people who have left the house have put up, appear to be the result of what inevitably happens when very human people live together. No one is perfect, people get hurt, misunderstand etc. But none of that makes fotm a cult.

Even if he by chance has made rules that are to be followed by people who want to stay at the FOTM ministry house, that’s not unusual; we had rules at the Jesus Forever Family. That’s not control, that’s order. Without any leadership or rules there is anarchy. I have no idea if he has or not.

Regarding other accusations:

Doug invited Clare to make a video with all the proof of her allegations… silence.

He also talks freely about losing the store and his family. In fact he is very open and humble about all the things you attack him on, Andrew, and he openly shares what he learned from them.

Even if he got it entirely wrong in the decisions and actions he made that led to losing the store and his family, if he genuinely did them because he was trying to obedient, doesn’t God appreciate the attitude of his heart? Have you always got it 100% right every time? I don’t know anyone else who has. Does getting it wrong make one a cult? No, it makes him a human who ‘sees though a glass darkly’.

Fourth you disparage his ‘hearing of voices. Well, as far as that goes… do YOU not hear the voice of God????

Can you not differentiate when God the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit is talking to you?

Those are the only voices Doug ever talks about. Though I’ve been able to differentiate between the voices of each of the 3 personalities of God for over 30 years, I just met Doug this month. So does that make me part of his cult too? Or am I a loony because I can tell the difference?

You have claimed that God told you to move to what, Wisconsin, I think Oregon, California and now back to New Zealand. A cynical person could ask why you or God can’t get it right.

In fact a person who doesn’t understand the walk of faith might even say that your hearing those instructions could be construed as being ‘off or against common sense’ since how is it common sense to move your family 3 times, around the country and then half way around the globe in such a short period of time?

But no one says those things because we respect your ability to hear God’s direction for you and your family/ministry. Why can you not extend the same respect to someone else who shares what they have heard from the Lord?

Since when is the deciding factor that one is hearing God’s voice whether it is ‘common sense’ or not? Isn’t that an oxymoron… if it’s common sense why would you NEED to hear God’s voice about it?

I’m pretty sure he isn’t talking about hearing angels or hearing anything else from the realm of the supernatural because he addresses that issue in the Todd Bentley videos. I say ‘pretty sure’ because I haven’t watched all the videos or read absolutely everything he’s written or put out but so far, I’ve found nothing even remotely like that.

In what I’ve read and watched, he talks about hearing just God in his different personalities. Not once has he mentioned any voices but God’s.

And for anyone reading this who is interested, Doug addresses how he hears God on his videos. I’m not doing all the work- go find them yourself on http://www.youtube.com/user/fotm1.

In conclusion:

So frankly, having read nearly all of your stuff since 2005, including your book, and having spent likely 50+ hours listening to Doug and/or reading his stuff, while I was praying to be enlightened regarding your assertions about Doug, I have not been able to find any of what you accuse him of.

His ideas may be different than what I’ve thought of or heard before but I’m sorry, not only are they backed up with IN CONTEXT scripture, he repeatedly asks the listener/reader to research them for oneself and simply puts it out there for consideration. He doesn’t demand one agree with him but from what I can see, tries to be at unity with even people he doesn’t agree with because we’re told to.

So to call him a “deeply deceived man” without one actual example of what he is deceived about and calling him a cult because people like his teaching is a bit over the top.

When people come to a church because they like the teachings of a pastor, even going so far as to change cities or move across the country to do so, do you call that pastor a cult too?

Given how strongly you feel about all of this it must be pretty annoying that anyone reading this and knowing what we’re talking about met Doug through your sending us to youtube to watch the videos about Todd Bentley.

One last word.

Have you told Doug, personally WHY you think he is cult other than that you think he is prideful and that the voices he hears aren’t really God?

Jesus says, “They will know you are my disciples by the love you have for one another”

I personally cannot understand why you cannot walk in unity with a brother of like faith and teaching even including your teachings on revival. On the major doctrines, you are in agreement. Why can you not just agree to disagree on the minor issues?

Once again, we the church, shoot our own because we don’t agree with them.

Sad.

So in accordance with scripture, though you are younger than me, ie. not my elder, I appeal to you, gently and in the Love of Yeshua our Messiah, to get with Doug. Please go without an agenda to point out his sin, but in genuine desire for the unity of Holy Spirit and the love we are commanded to walk in together to rule and reign and get this sorted out.

Such public disparagement damages the body and we don’t have time for that kind of stuff any more.

I would have kept this to the emails if you had. But since you went public, it seemed only fair that I respond in the same realm. That way people have the ability to make their own decision instead of their first introduction to a ministry that is blessing people and doing it’s best to follow it’s God-given mandate, being negative and hurtful.

Bless you and praying that the wisdom of God the Father, the true unity of the Love of Jesus Christ His Son, and the fellowship of Holy Spirit could abide in this issue so the army can get on with the job of winning the lost and defeating our common foe.

Sincerely

Maribeth

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Andrew – Site Founder
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:04 am

Dear Maribeth,

I appreciate you writing – seriously. It is important – for you and all of us to bring some of these things out.

Now let us be clear-

I am not concerned with what happened at that Conference at all – except for trying to make Doug see one simple thing. Here it is: His apology was actually for the fact that he did not do ENOUGH there! He thinks he was there to REALLY show us the way! -To do his “public groaning” thing even more so! HE was the one meant to usher in REAL revival. HE was the one!

All of this he made very clear to me. He basically apologized to me for NOT TAKING OVER THE ENTIRE MEETING. That is what the “voice” had told him to do. So he apologized that he had not done it! He could see no pride at all in the fact that he thought he should be at the center of everything. He felt he was supposed to be the one at the center – the one telling everyone what God was saying to do – none of which any of us witnessed to at all. In fact, everything he did felt quite “weird” and ‘odd’ – especially when he would listen to the “voice” and tell everyone to obey. It was truly “off”. A very weird feeling.

Maribeth, I don’t want to offend you, but you made one very telling statment above. Here is what you said: “Granted I’ve not gone to Liberty and met everyone…”

Ah – there it is. Now I need you to understand something, my sister. Here is the point of view that I am coming from: I have been to Doug’s house, met his (now-divorced) wife, prayed with him many times, heard him preach in person, met his “followers” and observed their strange bahaviour, seen his attitude at various events we held (mostly with David Servant who will tell you all the same things), etc, etc. I lived in Kansas City and saw all of this first-hand. I knew Doug when he was “normal” and I knew him when he went “deeply strange”.

Until you go there for 2 years and go through what Clare has been through – then sadly I have to say to you that you barely know a thing. He is so good at “outward appearances” that you simply will not know how bad things are until you spend the time with him.

And if you really want to do that – go right ahead. But I tell you, many are being terribly damaged by doing so. They get drawn right in.

I say these things only because I care – truly.

All my love to you in Christ. May your eyes be opened.

God bless you,

Andrew Strom.

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Andrew – Site Founder
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:45 am   

From another website – below is a testimony from former FOTM member “Steve” – as well as many video testimonies from eye- witnesses to the deception:

Steve –
“A little back story to explain, we just got out of a ‘christian’ cult – one where the people say they hear God speak to them all the time, BUT too often the things this voice says is against scripture. It started out good with feeding the poor and helping others but soon things got worse as this voice would tell people to abandon their families, break the laws of the land (speeding, not paying bills & debts, etc) and worse.

I thought I could not be deceived by anyone (pride), but I sure did and lots of people got hurt (including my family). If I had only “tested everything” as scripture commanded, I am sure none of this would have happened.

Long story short this ‘voice’ was telling the two main leaders that it was okay to leave/abandon & divorce their believing wifes & family. One leader had been married 3 times in one year and supposedly ‘god’ told him to get married, then divorce a women, then go on to another woman (because they didnt accept such strange teachings). Yep it was an unpublished teaching of the group. More and more the leaders would read less and less of the bible; or when they did, it was “out of context” to support their twisted and sinful lifestyle – one leader even said he rarely reads the bible because ‘god’ tells him what to do all the time (what to eat, wear, when to drink, shower, etc). Anyway the Lord was faithful and rescued us – my wife knew something was wrong, but didnt say anything; likewise, I was blinded by feeding the hungry and helping people (instead of testing everything as I should have).

p.s. I did one video asking for everyones forgiveness for ever recommending the false teachings of fellowshipofthemartyrs.com here is the link&ldots;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujj6d_frm1I
Here is a video where I explain the false teaching of “spiritual marriages”. Here is the link…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1FFpkOyDdo

VIDEOs BY OTHERS:

ANOTHER WITNESS who is speaking out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Brzr8…

EYE WITNESS Clare, long time FOTM member, left FOTM (read by NolongerSilenced)&ldots;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E4Qef&;ldots;

EYE WITNESS Clare telling about FOTM false teaching pt 1&ldots;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5lw9o&;ldots;

EYE WITNESS Clare telling about FOTM false teaching pt 2&ldots;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qIxGB&;ldots;

EYE WITNESS from Clare telling about FOTM false teaching pt 3&ldots;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8WDi&;ldots;

EYE WITNESS A young women who witnessed and also rebuked FOTM&ldots;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUX704&;ldots;

~SOURCE – http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/fellowship-of-the-martyrs-fotm-doug-perry-chris-evans

{OK, NOW HERE IS SOMETHING FOR ALL THE WITNESSES TO CONSIDER.  ANDREW POSTED THIS QUOTE FROM STEVE.  ANDREW IS USING THIS AS EVIDENCE AGAINST FOTM.  YET MOST OF THESE VIDEO LINKS ARE DEAD AND HAVE BEEN FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF WEEKS!!  ANDREW COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE REALLY INVESTIGATED AND WATCHED THESE VIDEOS AS THE LINKS ARE DEAD AND THE VIDEOS REMOVED FROM YOUTUBE!  HE POSTED THIS TO SUPPORT HIS CASE – WITHOUT HAVING EVEN CHECKED THE INFORMATION CONTAINED OR TESTED THE SPIRITS.  HE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT GOD TOLD HIM TO REBUKE FOTM OR WHAT EXACTLY THE ERRORS ARE. HE SIMPLY RECYCLED THE WORDS OF OTHERS FOR HIS BENEFIT – AS IS THE PRACTICE AT REVIVALSCHOOL. HE POSTED THIS STUFF WITHOUT EVEN WATCHING IT!}

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_Neno_ – Site Veteran
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:03 am

Terrible. Shocked

What is happening in the world.

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DougPerry – Newbie
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 2
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:12 am    
Post subject: Doug’s Response to Andrew

Dear Brother Andrew,

I’m deeply saddened at your decision to target me like you have and speak the lies you have spoken. You have repeated gossip and hearsay, you didn’t approach me personally about the accusations made against me, and you even inflated the description of your own experience with me. I believe you were in my home one time and met my wife only once or twice. We prayed together a handful of times at the most. You met some of the people here on only one or two occasions and yet you make it sound like you were an intimate observer throughout. You don’t seem to question any of the lies told by Clare or the others, even though they are without substance or evidence. Neither did I tell you or infer that I was supposed to “take over the whole conference”. I admitted to you repeatedly that the Lord told me to do ONE thing – and that was hit my knees and pray and repent. We had a “John the Baptist” conference where we never really REPENTED and wept for the church or the city or ANYTHING! God didn’t tell me to do anything after that – He said that HE would take over the conference. If that issue were fully resolved between us, then you wouldn’t continue to twist it all up. You have personally and publicly patted me on the head and basically called me a “nice puppy” – now you’re saying things far worse, but no less condescending.

Are you sure that you want to do this? I’m asking you, please, to reconsider. You have never even once, really heard me out about what God is doing in Kansas City. You have never once really given me any chance at all. The Lord is exposing all the leaders of the “church” that have created their own little kingdoms in their own power. If I am one, then so be it. If you are one, then so be it. The TRUTH will be shown. Are you really sure you want to pick a fight and get your eyes on me instead of the Cross? You better be absolutely sure that you have your facts straight and that your rebuke is righteous and Spirit-led. I have fasted and prayed for you for many, many hours over the last three years. I have begged the Lord to get your ministry back on track and get your head out of it. I have warned you by email and in person that if you didn’t get about the Lord’s business, that He would rotate you out of Kansas City. And nearly immediately after the second John the Baptist KC conference, He did just that.

I don’t want to do this with you, Brother. In all this time I haven’t posted on your board before this (nor followed it), I haven’t tried to disturb your peace. For a time, I even OWNED “andrewstrom.com” and could have used it for all kinds of nefarious purposes! If I were the prideful, dangerous cult leader you make me out to be, why didn’t I strike out at you time after time? Why have I resisted even responding to Clare and other for weeks or months? I’ve left you alone despite my substantial, substantive concerns about what you are doing. Are you sure you want to do this? The Lord is going to lift the skirts of all the false shepherds. Praise God! It’s about time! Woe to those who are leading the sheep astray and insist they are not. Woe to those who feed on the sheep for their own purposes. Should that include me, then I will gladly receive the rebuke and chastening of the Lord. Will you?

I can assure you that those who are here in Liberty do NOT follow ME. They do not and will not. They seek the Lord and follow Him only. Because I have done all that I can to KEEP them from following me! I am a man of no repute. Why would anyone listen to me anyway? But I don’t believe that those who follow you – and they DO follow you – will be able to get the public Andrew to jive with the private Andrew that I have known and has bitten me arrogantly and pridefully time after time. You said the “John the Baptists” would come and they would be uncontrollable and the religious leaders would eject them – and you did. Just like you predicted. Those who speak a harder word than you are willing to accept are stoned and marginalized. You are the religious leader that you preach against. You mock and ridicule those who surrender all, as the Lord said that we must, who suffer and are afflicted and whipped and stoned. You want to believe any voice that lays accusations against me, despite that the Lord Jesus said that those who follow Him would be lied about and mocked and sued and killed – and they would think they were doing God a favor. I’m sure even now, you believe that you are doing God (and the sheep) a favor by saying what you have said about me.

There was a time to turn the other cheek – and I did. And the Lord proved my words. Despite that you were called here, despite that the Lord put a huge burden on you for this city – you are now about as far from Kansas City as a person can get. Evidently you believe that it’s time for you to go public with your concerns about me. Are you sure you want to do that? Are you sure that, of all the dangers out there in the world that need exposing, you want to hitch your wagon to the bitter, angry, unforgiving, malicious voices that are spreading gossip and lies? I have tried over and over with you. Whatever debt I owed you is wiped clean now.

I love you and I continue to pray for you. I pray for you as I pray for myself, that any area of pride or self or sin or delusion would be exposed – by whatever means necessary. I pray that unity would come to the Bride and that real revival would sweep through the Remnant.

I don’t think we really have time for this kind of stuff, Andrew.

Doug Perry
doug@fellowshipofthemartyrs.com
Liberty, Missouri

For those seeking TRUTH, who know better than to listen to one side of any argument (or believe what Andrew says without evidence), my responses to Clare and others are on this page- http://www.fellowshipofthemartyrs.com/june.htm . Be clear that if you decide to act like Jesus, or tell “leaders” that they are wrong, you should expect them to bite back. I guess we’ll see how long this post lasts on RevivalSchool – or how long it takes for me to get banned.

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Joseph – Site Veteran
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:41 am  

interesting…lynn two weeks ago defended doug. andrew is now “warning” of doug.

As the prophets turn.

applying the Word of God to every teaching and manifestation

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Luk 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
Luk 12:56 Ye hypocrites(not my words, His) ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Again, I ask, Who do you think is going to cast out every spot and wrinkle…us or Jesus?

_________________

The true measure of your love for Jesus is the same as the love for the person that you love the least. -Unknown

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harvestisripe – Site Veteran
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:17 am  

Joseph – I hate gossip – I gave Doug a chance to be heard – a chance to defend or to repent – he and God know which he needs to do.

Where is the love in our hearts – yes I ask this question again – where is the love in out hearts – do we come to condem always looking for the next one we can expose!

I am not just asking Joseph this I am asking all who read here this.

if one is leading Gods sheep astray – yes they need to be questioned absolutely and need to publically repent.

Doug was on here just a minute ago and Doug knows my heart is to love him and he also knows I stand for truth – he knows I hate lies and and he also knows I am very bold in asking him to repent publically or if need be.

He knows I am not out to get him – to have that fix that I just exposed someone – continueing the soap opera!

So what I see in your post is trying to show there is division between Andrew and myself – NO there is not – I love Andrew and respect him and his decission – we just approched this from another angle!

I am wondering if anyone even prays and seeks God when they post eprecially concerning such a huge matter here set before us.

I think if anything these discussion should first teach us how to love and to to actually be broken for one another if and when a brother falls -wanting to see real restoration – I glory in no ones demise and neither does Andrew.

Andrew has and obligation to protect the sheep that come here – and I understand this – so I am by no means coming against Andrew – neither do I have bitterness in my heart towards Doug and I pray he is only willing to do what God is asking him to do.

IF – WE HAVE NOT LOVE WE HAVE NOT CHRIST IN US!

Please pray about these things – Sincerely, Lynn

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Pammi – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:25 pm    
Post subject: watch my video on fellowshipofthemartyrs.com

TO THE TRUE BODY OF CHRIST SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD: STOP JUDGING AND CRITICIZING EACHOTHER, GET ON YOUR KNEES, LAY DOWN YOUR PRIDE, AND REPENT!!! Paul warned us of deception in the last days and how people would be proud and self-centered, and BLIND cuz God was gonna send delusion on those people who wanted their ears tickled!

I WENT to Liberty, Mo. I saw many things. The MOST IMPORTANT thing I learned there was NOT to lean on the teaching of others but to COMPLETELY TRUST the TRUTH as spoken by Jesus, that HIS SHEEP

H E A R HIS VOICE AND FOLLOW HIM AND ANOTHER THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW.

The ONLY person there who set that example for me was Doug Perry-who, every time I asked him to answer a problem for me, would say to me, YOU HEAR GOD, WHAT DOES HE TELL YOU? After a few times of hearing that from him, I PAID ATTENTION. While I was there, THE LORD taught me many things, and imparted His spirit to me for His Name’s Sake.

I hear nothing from anyone now on the internet about lifting up our brethren , without judgment couched in “brotherly concern”. THIS PEOPLE, IS PRIDE.

Heavenly Father: I lay before you (no semantics, please) in the spirit of repentence, with a heart broken and bleeding over the hardness of hearts of people who claim to love you….i would lift up EACH ONE OF US, FATHER, and BEG YOU for mercy upon us-that you would open our eyes to how YOU WANT US TO LOVE AND LIVE….Forgive, Father, those of us who have fallen to lieing spirits and forked tongues…..TEACH US TO LIFT EACHOTHER UP AS CAREFUL STEWARDS SHOULD-NOT BACKBITING, OR NAME CALLING, BUT IN FEAR OF OUR GOD WHO PROMISES US HE WILL JUDGE US ACCORDING TO HOW WE JUDGE OTHERS! FATHER, I BEG YOU FOR YOUR MERCY THROUGH THE BLOOD OF YOUR SON THAT WE COULD STOP CRUCIFYING YOUR SON AGAIN IN THE FLESH!!!! In the name of Jesus. Amen. If anyone one of us are slamming eachother “IN THE NAME OF JESUS, COUCHED IN BROTHERLY CONCERN” rather than humbly going before God on behalf of our own selfish nature and blindness to God’s way, he is gossiping and slandering HIS OWN HEART! “FOR OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART, THE MOUTH SPEAKS”. People of God, WE NEED TO FEAR THE LORD and love our brothers and sisters!! Paul admonished us to pray unceasingly for eachother…..ARE YOU DOING THAT??? IS IT IN YOUR PRAYER CLOSET LIKE IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE? Who do YOU think would be speaking out of turn about others using the internet back in Jesus’ day? I will tell you who…..THE PHARISEES, THAT’S WHO!! Certainly NOT the man on his knees before God wrenting his clothes because of the state of his own wretchedness!!!!!! Jugment from God WILL come, starting with the house of God….and we will obtain mercy ourselves only as much as we SHOW MERCY TO OTHERS….

Please go to fellowshipofthemartyrs.com and watch my testimony. MAY MY FATHER USE IT TO TOUCH HIS OWN. AMEN

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Pammi – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:33 pm    
Post subject: LOVE

DO WE LOVE EACHOTHER SO MUCH THAT OUR HEART ACHES AND CRIES OUT FOR THE ENDURANCE OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS? TO MAKE IT TO THE END? ARE WE IN OUR PRAYER CLOSETS LIFTING EACHOTHER UP THAT NONE OF US ARE LOST TO THE ENEMY??? DO WE, LIKE PAUL, SAY: ” I WOULD THAT I WERE ACCURSED FOR THE SAKE OF YOU ALL”????????????????

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gramma – Site Veteran
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:11 pm    
Post subject:

Andrew wrote:

From another website – below is a testimony from former FOTM member “Steve” – as well as many video testimonies from eye-witnesses to the deception:

Steve –
“A little back story to explain, we just got out of a ‘christian’ cult – one where the people say they hear God speak to them all the time, BUT too often the things this voice says is against scripture. It started out good with feeding the poor and helping others but soon things got worse as this voice would tell people to abandon their families, break the laws of the land (speeding, not paying bills & debts, etc) and worse.

I thought I could not be deceived by anyone (pride), but I sure did and lots of people got hurt (including my family). If I had only “tested everything” as scripture commanded, I am sure none of this would have happened.

Long story short this ‘voice’ was telling the two main leaders that it was okay to leave/abandon & divorce their believing wifes & family. One leader had been married 3 times in one year and supposedly ‘god’ told him to get married, then divorce a women, then go on to another woman (because they didnt accept such strange teachings). Yep it was an unpublished teaching of the group. More and more the leaders would read less and less of the bible; or when they did, it was “out of context” to support their twisted and sinful lifestyle – one leader even said he rarely reads the bible because ‘god’ tells him what to do all the time (what to eat, wear, when to drink, shower, etc). Anyway the Lord was faithful and rescued us – my wife knew something was wrong, but didnt say anything; likewise, I was blinded by feeding the hungry and helping people (instead of testing everything as I should have).

The above statement is extremely alarming and frankly I wonder why Doug you have not addressed these points here in this thread??? I for one would surely appreciate your response to this statement – is this true??

Blessings,
Gramma

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Jason – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:11 pm    
Post subject: This discussion could be an opportunity.

Doug and Andrew,

It seems to me that this is an opportunity for humility and repentance on both sides. Maybe it’s time to pick up the phone, repent, and reconcile. Think about it.

Jason

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Andrew – Site Founder
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:49 pm    
Post subject:

Jason – this is not “personal” at all.

I have nothing ‘personal’ against Doug whatsoever. Actually – I love the brother – truly. So does David Servant. We both truly love the guy.

But here is what this is all about:

It is ALL about the people who are getting hurt and damaged – precious sheep of Jesus. And there are many.

I have avoided putting out this warning literally for YEARS. I simply cannot keep doing so. There are too many being hurt.

Sorry. This is totally Scriptural.

God bless you!

Andrew Strom.

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Jason – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:20 pm    
Post subject: Don’t apologize.

Andrew,

No need to apologize. If this is the time for correction and warning, then so be it, according to the will of God. If indeed there is abuse going on in Liberty, then it needs to be exposed and stopped immediately. May all be done for the glory of God.

Jason

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Andrew – Site Founder
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:32 pm    
Post subject:

Another thing we should touch on before we leave this subject-

Have you ever noticed that the modern church thinks it is “unloving” to bring correction?

Have you ever noticed that Matt 18 is hardly ever obeyed? (-Where if a brother will not repent, he is to be publicly warned in front of the church for the good of all – and even stronger measures).

None of this kind of thing happens at all today – even though it is commanded in Scripture. Why?

Because we are told it is “unloving”. Nobody wants to take the risk of “offending” anyone.

Thus we find precious sheep getting damaged, hurt, wounded, torn apart – and no-one speaking up to stop it. If someone speaks up they are spoken of as “unloving”.

I got this a lot with Todd Bentley. People felt it was “unloving” to expose dangerous error and heresy. They wrote angry emails, etc.

My argument with Todd Bentley is nothing “personal” at all. -Just like with Doug Perry. There is absolutely not the slightest bit of ‘personal’ malice or anything like it

It is not “personal”. It is all about the SHEEP! It is about members of Christ’s precious body being harmed. Why are we not allowed to warn any more – to protect the sheep? Why?

We need to get back to these basic Scriptural commands – and the whole Body will be a lot healthier for it.

God bless you, my friends.

Andrew Strom.

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DougPerry – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:06 pm    
Post subject:

gramma wrote:

{QUOTE} Long story short this ‘voice’ was telling the two main leaders that it was okay to leave/abandon & divorce their believing wifes & family. One leader had been married 3 times in one year and supposedly ‘god’ told him to get married, then divorce a women, then go on to another woman (because they didnt accept such strange teachings). Yep it was an unpublished teaching of the group. More and more the leaders would read less and less of the bible; or when they did, it was “out of context” to support their twisted and sinful lifestyle – one leader even said he rarely reads the bible because ‘god’ tells him what to do all the time (what to eat, wear, when to drink, shower, etc). Anyway the Lord was faithful and rescued us – my wife knew something was wrong, but didnt say anything; likewise, I was blinded by feeding the hungry and helping people (instead of testing everything as I should have).

The above statement is extremely alarming and frankly I wonder why Doug you have not addressed these points here in this thread??? I for one would surely appreciate your response to this statement – is this true??

Blessings,
Gramma[/END QUOTE]

____

Hi Gramma,

No, it is not true. Steve is not accurately describing ANY of the facts. They are all twisted and mangled. I cannot respond to every single thing said about me. That is a tactic of the enemy to get us wasting time instead of ministering to those in need. Chris has not been married three times, nor is anyone teaching anything like that or using anything as an excuse for the flesh. Steve has also accused Chris of raping a woman and that she was going to file charges – and then later backed off and admitted that he didn’t really mean it that way. There are many details in all of this that are fully and completely unsubstantiated. I don’t think people understand that SOMEONE is under a delusion – and it’s either me or not me. And when you are under a delusion, you only see and remember what you want to. The enemy is VERY sneaky and will do all that He can to destroy those who seek with all their hearts to obey the Lord. None of us are perfect, but if we do not show mercy to those who bump into something when they are trying with all their heart, then we are not loving like Jesus.

I have OFTEN said what the Bible says, that we should not lean on our own understanding and that GOD should direct ALL of our paths. There are a tiny handful of people banging pots and pans trying to sound like a big crowd (and being aided by “religious leaders” with their own axe to grind). I have dozens and dozens of testimonies of people healed, delivered and radically transformed by the hand of God through all that He is doing here.

If all the people telling me that I’m not hearing God were actually ACTING LIKE JESUS when they rebuke me, it would be a lot easier for me to take them seriously. That said, I want to thank Lynn Clark for coming to me directly and hearing me out.

Doug

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Jason – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:10 pm    
Post subject: ‘Reproofs of instruction are the way of life’

The Scripture is clear on the issue of correction. Very little of this is seen in the Church today.

Proverbs 15:10 says:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

And of course there is Matthew 18:
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”

It is interesting to note that some manuscripts to do not contain the words ‘against you’, leaving it as ‘If your brother sins…’

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Runningtherace – Newbie
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:15 pm    
Post subject: Steps in Matt 18

In reply to Andrew’s questions as to whether or not anyone had noticed that the steps of Matt 18 are rarely ever taken today?

The steps of Matt 18 were taken with Doug Perry by David Eells several years ago and he was offered deliverance and turned it down. That isn’t very well known, but it did take place.

Andrew is correct in what he is sharing, Doug Perry is not hearing the voice of God but he is hearing a “Voice”.

You have been warned.

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{RIGHT HERE IS WHERE DOUG POSTED AND ANDREW DELETED IT. THERE WOULD HAVE ALSO BEEN A POST ABOUT HOW DAVID EELLS DID NO SUCH THING AT ALL, BUT THAT WOULDN’T LOAD EITHER.}

{THIS IS THE POST ANDREW DELETED.}

Andrew,

Even in your responses to others here, you refuse to address me personally and directly. You quote Matthew 18 as if you came to ME with the concerns about these “eye witnesses” before you went to the “church” – but you did not. Your responses ABOUT me to others, without addressing me at all, continue to show a level of condescension and arrogance that, sadly, is not new to me at all in my dealings with you.

As I read your rebuke, and your assurance that you have forgiven me for what happened years ago, I realize again how much I appreciate that Jesus Christ forgives differently than you. When I ask Him for forgiveness, He puts it under the ocean, as far as the East is from the West and declares me a new creation. You say, “I’ll forgive you, but I’m never going to forget what you did to me.” Yes, I continue to stand believing that you didn’t forgive – or worse, that you don’t know how to forgive at all.

This remains; you were sent to Kansas City to bring revival. You were everywhere BUT Kansas City leading conferences and trying to build a “Jesus Army” with beat box music and chartreuse hats. I told you to your face at the second John the Baptist conference that God made it clear to me that if you didn’t get back to doing what God sent you to do in Kansas City, then God was going to rotate you out. You flatly refused my words and mocked me and threw me out of the building. And you were promptly rotated out of Kansas City.

As a resident of Kansas City and one desperate for revival, I begged you repeatedly to hear me and to listen to what God was doing and to open your eyes. You continue to hold up great revivalists like John G. Lake and Finney and Evan Roberts and Daniel Nash and others as icons of what it’s going to take. And yet you mock and scorn those who sacrifice family (as Lake and others did) or weep and groan and travail (as Roberts and Nash did). You mock those who take a vow to the Lord and consecrate themselves unto Him (as Samson and John the Baptist and others did). You said that the “John the Baptists” would be unpalateable and “weird” and no one would receive them. You said that they would be scorned and mocked and shut out. You said that their words would discomfort everyone and everything and pucker the wallpaper. And your words were true. And you are far too much a part of the “religious establishment” that you claim to rail against. The “church” as we have known it will all be coming down – and you will be coming down with it if you continue to be blind to the real remnant that is out there suffering the loss of all. You are preaching a “prosperity gospel” of your own making if you say that those who have lost all can’t possibly be hearing God. Read Matthew 5 again.

I have watched you build and guard your kingdom here. I have watched you send out the anointed words of others because you didn’t have enough of your own. I have seen you latch on to one anointed man of God after another and then discard them when it suited you. I have seen you waffle from one plan to another, sure that God was directing you and all of them crumbling – then you move on to the next anointed plan that God told you to follow, taking all these thousands of hungry people along with you. Many have rebuked you for the control and manipulation and witchcraft on these pages and in your ministry. You still refuse to listen. I pray for you, as I pray for me, that you will be a broken and contrite vessel, useful for His purposes.

By your own admission, I have been here steadfastly preaching the same thing, despite all opposition, despite all loss or personal costs, despite anything that has come. I have stood here consistently weeping and groaning and praying for revival in Kansas City. Desperate to see the Body of Christ stand as one and for the promises to Kansas City to be fulfilled. How hard of a job do you think this is? It is hard enough to have flushed MANY out of the city altogether. How much might it NOT have cost me, had you helped and been willing to even LISTEN? There is much blood on your own head, brother, for many, many missed opportunities and your unwillingness to hear God – while you mock those who do.

You do wrong, brother. You do wrong to stretch out your hand against all the little ones that will go where you refuse to go. You do wrong to deny that Jesus Himself said you would be mocked and hated and even give up family and lands for Him. You do wrong to sit back and talk about revival while there are those losing all and actually DOING revival. There are MANY that are standing alone while voices like yours that could be helping – instead insist on proudly asserting that you know best because you’re a “revival historian” and it doesn’t look right to you.

I asked you if you were sure that you wanted to do this and you have asserted (to others, if not to me) that in fact, you DO want to make this public. I agree. It’s time for the skirts to be lifted. Do your best. Find all the dirt you can on me. Dig it all up. Get real muddy. Send lots of traffic to our site. I stand as I have stood all along, waiting on the Lord and seeking His face. He will prove who was listening to His voice and who was speaking from their flesh and their reason and their own biases.

In the end, it still comes down to this. You build your altar and I’ll build my altar and we’ll see which catches fire first.

People are being healed and delivered and freed and real transformation and holiness and revival is coming to Kansas City. The Kansas City revival started and it started in Liberty and God Almighty will prove my words or I will go down in a giant fireball (or a little puff of smoke). Pretty soon it will be obvious and undeniable to all. Here I stand.

May the Lord God Almighty judge between me and thee.

Doug

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Andrew – Site Founder
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:22 pm    
Post subject:

Hmmm. OK. I think this will get out of hand if it is left to discussion further. Too many people perhaps getting a little heated.

I am very glad that Doug was able to come on here and represent his own side of things. That is important.

There is plenty of information on the Net for people to check out if they wish on this issue.

My statements have been made. I stand by them. Doug has responded.

It is up to people to decide.

We need to lock this thread, but I just want to close by pleading for greater DISCERNMENT in the Body of Christ in these days. Let us leave this topic alone now. I don’t know if any more could be accomplished by continuing. My love to all – including Doug.

God bless you.

Andrew Strom.

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{FOLLOWING THAT, ANDREW SENT DOUG AN EMAIL WHICH IS HERE – AND THEN ANDREW WAS REBUKED BY MARIBETH WHO IS A CULT EXPERT AND HE COMPLETELY BLEW HER OFF.  AFTER TELLING HER THAT SHE HAD NO AUTHORITY SINCE SHE HADN’T BEEN HERE FOR TWO YEARS – AS CLARE HAD – HE GOES ON TO TRY TO SPEAK WITH AUTHORITY AS IF HE HAD BEEN HERE FOR TWO YEARS INTIMATELY INVOLVED.  HE HOLDS UP CLARE’S TESTIMONY AS TRUTH WHEN IT IS FULL OF FABRICATIONS AND EXAGGERATIONS AND REFUSES ANYONE THAT TRIES TO CORRECT HIM – EVEN EXPERTS. HIS MIND IS SET AND HAS NOT BUDGED IN THREE YEARS. SURELY THERE REMAINS UNFORGIVENESS IN HIS HEART. OR ELSE WHAT IS IT?  I’M SURE GLAD THAT JESUS DOESN’T FORGIVE LIKE ANDREW. JESUS PUTS IT UNDER THE OCEAN AND MOVES ON TOWARD RESTORATION.}